McFadden says he wants ‘disrupters’ in civil service and confirms ministers must find new savings in spending review – UK politics live | Politics
McFadden says he wants to see 'innovators and disrupters' working for civil service
In his speech this morning Pat McFadden, the Cabinet Office minister, channelled Dominic Cummings when he said he wanted to see “innovators and disrupters” working for the civil service.
He said:
You might remember a few years ago, there was a call for weirdos and misfits in the system.
Well, whatever term you want to use, we do want innovators and disrupters and original thinkers.
My message to creative thinkers is this is your chance to serve your country, use your brain power, your technological talents, to fix some of the biggest problems we face today.
Britain needs you, and if you choose to serve I want government to empower you to help us deliver, to move fast and build things.
There are more details of the speech in the Cabinet Office news release here. It includes details of how the “test and learn culture” approach McFadden is proposing will be be tried first with two projects, operating in Manchester, Sheffield, Essex and Liverpool and covering family support and temporary accommodation.
Key events
McFadden confirms ministers being asked to find further efficiency savings
Pat McFadden also confirmed that ministers will be told they need to find more efficiency savings in their departments in the spending review starting this week.
In his speech he said:
At the recent budget, the chancellor demanded efficiency and productivity savings of 2% across departments, and there’ll be more to come.
As we launch the next phase of the spending review, at its heart must be reform of the state in order to do a better job for the public.
According to a story by Tim Shipman in the Sunday Times yesterday, ministers will be told they need to find 5% efficiency savings. Shipman said:
On Tuesday a letter will land on the desk of every cabinet minister from Darren Jones, the chief secretary to the Treasury, announcing the start of the public spending review, which will decide precisely how the government spends taxpayers’ money for the next two years.
It will demand three things: first, that ministers spend money on things the public actually cares about to demonstrate they are on the side of voters. Second, that they tackle waste. Every department will be told they need to find 5% savings from waste and inefficiencies. Third, that they reform public services to make them more productive and get better value for money for the taxpayer. “We cannot keep paying more for poor performance,” Jones writes.
McFadden says he wants to see 'innovators and disrupters' working for civil service
In his speech this morning Pat McFadden, the Cabinet Office minister, channelled Dominic Cummings when he said he wanted to see “innovators and disrupters” working for the civil service.
He said:
You might remember a few years ago, there was a call for weirdos and misfits in the system.
Well, whatever term you want to use, we do want innovators and disrupters and original thinkers.
My message to creative thinkers is this is your chance to serve your country, use your brain power, your technological talents, to fix some of the biggest problems we face today.
Britain needs you, and if you choose to serve I want government to empower you to help us deliver, to move fast and build things.
There are more details of the speech in the Cabinet Office news release here. It includes details of how the “test and learn culture” approach McFadden is proposing will be be tried first with two projects, operating in Manchester, Sheffield, Essex and Liverpool and covering family support and temporary accommodation.
Pat McFadden’s line about how the civil service has got “a lot of good people caught in bad systems” (see 9.31am) suggests he has been reading Failed State by Sam Freedman, one of the best of the books published recently about the dysfunctionality of the British political system. (After Brexit, Boris Johnson, Liz Truss etc, this is one literary genre that is booming.)
In his book, Freedman says:
Even when more talented people find themselves in power, they are trapped in institutions that do not work, and bad systems beat good people every time.
Freedman sometimes gets credited with this aphorism, but it was W Edwards Deming who first said ‘a bad system will beat a good person every time’. Freedman includes this as one of the epigraphs at the start of his book. Deming was an American pioneer of management studies.
McFadden says Elon Musk 'incredible innovator', but says having business leaders in government not always successful
Q: [From Alex Wickham from Bloomberg] Do you think you will be able to learn from Elon Musk and the Doge (Department of Government Efficiency) review he is doing for Donald Trump? And has there been any outreach to him from the government?
McFadden said:
Let’s see how he gets on.
I was around in the government last time, and we brought in various people from the business world to help out. Some of them were an enormous success, made great ministers, did great things. Some others less so. Let us see what he can do.
One thing that’s clear is, in the technological world and in the industrial world, he’s been an incredible innovator, and he’s managed to do things in new ways. So let us see how that works out.
In terms of specific outreach to them, not that I’m aware of. But I think it will be interesting to follow what happens.
This was relatively positive, given what Musk has been saying about Keir Starmer, and Britain under Labour, on his X platform in recent months.
Q: [From Emilio Casalicchio from Politico] Wasn’t the problem with the PM’s speech the fact that he alientated civil servants with it?
McFadden says it is legitimate for the PM, and for him, to say they want civil servants to provide the best possible delivery. He says his speech set out how this might happen.
Q: Why has the government dropped plans for an NAO inquiry into the allegations about financial misconduct in relation to the Teesworks project?
McFadden says, when Angela Rayner was asked about this yesterday, she explained she had received an 800-page report with new information. The government will study that before deciding what happens next, he says.
Q: [From Christopher Hope from GB News] Do you want to cut the number of civil service jobs? Do you favour ID cards? And would you give Dominic Cummings a job?
McFadden says, in the past, when people have cut civil service numbers, they have ended up hiring more consultants, at greater expense.
On ID cards, he says the government is looking at a means of allowing people to access different government services with one log in.
And, on Cumings, he says that is a matter for him, but he says he is not expecting to receive a job application from him.
Q: [From Beth Rigby from Sky News] Do you disagree with what the PM said about civil servants being in the tepid bath of decline?
McFadden says he and Keir Starmer are both focused on changing the structures within which civil servants work.
Q: Do you think the civil service will end up smaller?
McFadden says he is focused on making the civil service more productive.
There is a live feed of the Pat McFadden speech here.
McFadden is currently taking questions.
In an interview with Times Radio, Pat McFadden, the Cabinet Office minister, was asked about civil servants working from home (a near obsession for some on the right, who want to see them back in the office). McFadden said that, while he supported flexibility, he was in favour of having people in the office. He said:
I’m a believer in working in the office. I think it’s good for people to come into the office, you get shared learning from your colleagues, you get the culture of working in a team. I think that’s harder if you’re at home all the time.
Of course, the civil service is flexible. As an employer of people who’ve got particular circumstances, which might mean they have to be at home sometimes that’s taken into account.
But if you ask me on the whole, do I want people in the office and getting the benefits of shared work? And the answer is yes.
The government has had “no contact or no request” for the British wife of Bashar al-Assad to come to the UK, Pat McFadden said this morning.
The Cabinet Office minister told the Today programme that he was not aware of any suggestion that Asma al-Assad, who was born in London in 1975 and was raised in the city, might want to return to Britain.
Asked about this, he said:
The family are in Russia as far as we know, that’s what Russian state media have said.
We’ve certainly had no contact or no request for Mr Assad’s wife to come to the UK.
Asked if Asma al-Assad would be allowed to enter the UK if she wanted to, he replied:
I couldn’t comment on her individual rights.
I don’t know her exact circumstances, so I don’t know what would happen in those circumstances, but it’s not something that’s been raised with us.
State bureaucracy 'urgently needs cutting back', say Tories
The Conservative party has dismissed the government’s announcement about civil service reform (see 9am and 9.31am), saying what matters is cutting the size of the state. In a response to the Cabinet Office overnight briefing on Pat McFadden’s speech, Richard Holden, his Tory shadow, said:
The bureaucracy of the British state urgently needs cutting back, which is why at the general election we had a plan to reduce it to pre-Covid levels, plans Labour opposed.
Everything Labour has done so far has been to swell the size and cost of the state, on the backs of workers, pensioners, farmers and family businesses across the country.
Starmer urged to protest about executions in Saudi Arabia when he meets crown prince
Patrick Wintour
Keir Starmer is being urged to raise the execution of more than 300 people in Saudi Arabia this year when he meets the Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman today to seek Saudi investment in the UK.
Starmer was scathing when Boris Johnson failed to raise the issue of Saudi executions when he visited the Kingdom in 2022, and so far none of the pre publicity for the trip issued by Downing Street makes any reference to human rights.
When Johnson visited Saudi Arabia in 2022, Starmer as Labour leader accused Johnson of “going cap in hand from dictator to dictator”.
Number 10 said the focus of the visit is sealing joint green energy projects that will bring jobs to the north-east, but the prospects of a ceasefire in Gaza, normalisation between Israel and Saudi Arabia as well as the future of the Houthis in Yemen will also be raised.
Starmer has also been visiting the United Arab Emirates, one of the countries in the Middle East closest to Syria’s toppled President Bashir al-Assad.
The total of 304 executions in 2024 in Saudi Arabia exceeds the record of 196 set in 2022. Analysis by Reprieve suggests less than half of those executed had been sentenced for lethal offences, including 79 foreign nationals executed for non lethal drug offences. In total nearly 40% of those executed were foreign nationals. In normally uncompetitive elections, Saudi Arabia lost its bid for a seat on the 18 strong UN Human Rights Council in October when it came last in an election for five regional seats.
The country’s own human rights commission has largely focussed on improvements to women’s rights.
In interviews with western media, including Time and the Atlantic, the crown prince has promised to abolish the death penalty for all but the most serious offences.
Commenting on Starmer’s visit Taha al-Hajj, legal director of the European Saudi Organisation for Human Rights, commented:
Each time a world leader visits Saudi Arabia and says nothing about the bloodbath taking place in the Kingdom’s prisons, the executioner sharpens his blade. The families of men and women on death row tell us they are more terrified than ever, desperately hoping that someone with influence will speak up before it is too late for their loved ones. Many of the execution victims have committed no act of violence themselves: these killings flout international law and break the crown prince’s own promises.
Reprieve has been highlighting two cases Abdullah al-Derazi and Adbullah al-Howaiti who were both sentenced to death for offences allegedly committed when they were still children. Both were subjected to torture that was used to secure false confessions used against them in court.
Reprieve deputy executive director Dan Dolan commented:
When Boris Johnson visited Mohammed bin Salman in 2022, three days after the mass execution of 81 people, Sir Keir Starmer was rightly scathing of Johnson’s unconditional embrace of one of the world’s most prolific executioners of protesters. Now he is the prime minister, he has the opportunity to address the escalating execution crisis in Saudi Arabia. If he publicly raises the cases of child defendants Abdullah al-Howaiti and Abdullah al-Derazi when he meets with the crown prince, he could save their lives.
McFadden rejects claim government picking fight with civil servants, saying they are 'good people in bad systems'
Last week Keir Starmer was criticised for suggesting, in his Plan for Change speech, that some civil servants are happy indulging in the “tepid bath of managed decline”.
In an interview with Sky News this morning, asked why the government was picking a fight with the civil service, Pat McFadden, the Cabinet Office minister, insisted that this was not the case. He said:
I’m praising the civil service today. I think we’ve got a lot of good people caught in bad systems.
Explaining why he wants the civil service to adopt a tech startup approach to delivering services, he said:
And the point I’m making today is that we’ve got huge change in the private sphere. If we think about all the companies we use and rely on, Airbnb or Spotify or WhatsApp - [they] didn’t even exist 20 years ago. They’ve changed our lives.
Has the government changed, the way it thinks about delivering services changed at the speed of the private sphere? It hasn’t. So we’ve got to take the learning from what’s happening in the private [sector].
Asked to give an example, McFadden replied:
When they started developing the universal credit system, they spent hundreds of millions of pounds doing it in the old Whitehall way. You issue a policy paper, you have lots of committees, lots of meetings, and they got nowhere.
What they did after that was they took the process out of the department, put together a small team of about 30 people, policy people, tech people, frontline workers, said, ‘Let’s do this small, we don’t have to do it for the whole country at once, let’s test this in a really small way and see if it works.’
They did that in Sutton. Then they rolled it out a bit more, and a bit more.
It’s what we call the test and learn approach where you don’t have to design everything from scratch. You test, you learn. You allow for some failure in the system. You don’t get panicked by that. You learn from that.
I want to see that approach adopted more in policy in the the future.
Some of McFadden’s colleagues may not find this example encouraging. While the decision to roll out universal credit gradually, in the way McFadden describes, not as a single ‘big bang’ reform, was generally seen as sensible, the project (an enormous reform undertaking) was nevertheless beset by problems, and rollout has taken more than a decade.
Pat McFadden says Labour will ‘rewire state’ by getting civil servants to adopt 'test and learn culture'
Good morning. Keir Starmer and Kemi Badenoch have both spoken about their desire to completely “rewire” the way the British state operates. Badenoch has not said much about how this might happen (although she has spoken about wanting the state to do less, implying not so much a rewiring of the state as a complete removal of some of the wiring instead). And Starmer has not given a detailed vision of what rewiring might involve either, but this morning Pat McFadden, the Cabinet Office minister, will give a speech providing the answer, or at least one answer.
As Eleni Courea reports in her overnight story, McFadden will say the government will ask officials managing public service delivery to operate as if they are running a tech startup.
If the overnight press briefing is anything to go by, this will be bad news for civil servants who enjoy writing erudite policy documents. The Cabinet Office says:
‘Crack’ teams of problem solvers will be deployed to improve public services and support delivery of the Plan for Change. Made up of a mix of people working in partnership to drive change - with data and digital skills, policy officials, and frontline workers, they will be given the freedom to experiment and adapt - adopting the ‘test and learn’ mindset of Silicon Valley.
Instead of writing more complicated policy papers and long strategy documents, the government will set the teams a challenge and empower them to experiment, innovate and try new things.
In his speech McFadden will say he wants civil servants to adopt a “test and learn culture”. Explaining what this means, McFadden will say:
Test it. Fix the problems. Change the design. Test it again. Tweak it again. And so on, and so on, for as long as you provide the service. Suddenly, the most important question isn’t, ‘How do we get this right the first time?’. It’s ‘How do we make this better by next Friday?
That’s the test and learn mindset, and I’m keen to see where we can deploy it in government. Where we can make the state a little bit more like a start-up.
McFadden will say the government will start this approach with two smallish projects, before rolling it out more widely. He will say that, while “each of these projects is small”, they could ‘rewire the state one test at a time”.
McFadden has been doing an interview round this morning, and I will post more from what he has been saying about this in those exchanges shortly. But inevitably the interviews have been dominated by Syria. McFadden confirmed that the government is considering whether Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS), the Islamist group which has taken over Syria, should remain proscribed in the UK as a terrorist organisation. HTS says it has changed since it emerged some years ago as an al-Qaida offshoot. There will be some discussion of Syria here on the blog, but most of our coverage will be on our Middle East crisis live blog.
Here is the agenda for the day.
10am: Pat McFadden, the Cabinet Office minister, gives a speech on the civil service and public sector reform.
Late morning (UK) time: Keir Starmer arrives in Riyadh for a meeting with Saudi Arabia’s crown prince Mohammed bin Salman. Earlier he was in the United Arab Emirates for a meeting with its president, Sheikh Mohamed bin Zayed.
11.30am: Downing Street holds a lobby briefing.
Afternoon: Rachel Reeves, the chancellor, is in Brussels for a meeting with EU finance ministers. As Mark Sweney and Phillip Inman report, she will say she wants a “mature, business-like relationship [with the EU] where we can put behind us the low ambitions of the past and move forward, focused instead on all that we have in common”.
2.30pm: Bridget Phillipson, the education secretary, takes questions in the Commons.
If you want to contact me, please post a message below the line or message me on social media. I can’t read all the messages BTL, but if you put “Andrew” in a message aimed at me, I am more likely to see it because I search for posts containing that word.
If you want to flag something up urgently, it is best to use social media. You can reach me on Bluesky at @andrewsparrowgdn. The Guardian has given up posting from its official accounts on X but individual Guardian journalists are there, I have still have my account, and if you message me there at @AndrewSparrow, I will see it and respond if necessary.
I find it very helpful when readers point out mistakes, even minor typos. No error is too small to correct. And I find your questions very interesting too. I can’t promise to reply to them all, but I will try to reply to as many as I can, either BTL or sometimes in the blog.