Canadian soccer coaches with both the men's and women's teams were so "obsessed" with obtaining information about their opponents that they would pressure employees to take part in spying activities, Radio-Canada has learned.

Those spying activities were pervasive years before coaches were caught using a drone to spy on an opponent during the 2024 Paris Olympics, according to new information obtained by Radio-Canada's Enquête. 

Over the past few months, Radio-Canada spoke to around 20 former players, managers, agents, coaches and employees with links to Canada Soccer. Radio-Canada is not revealing their identities because they all fear professional reprisals. 

The sources said that what happened in France — when a Canada Soccer employee affiliated with the women's national team was caught flying a drone over a New Zealand team practice — is just the "tip of the iceberg." 

The sources described a culture of spying inside the organization that dates back years to when John Herdman coached the women's national team.

Canada Soccer suspected it was Herdman who started using drones to spy on opponents, according to statements submitted to FIFA and the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) by Canada Soccer. 

Multiple sources said the coaches of the men's national team have been using drones for spying purposes since Herdman took over in 2018, continuing practices he had used in the past. 

Radio-Canada sources also said he passed the practice down to his successor, Bev Priestman, who is currently suspended awaiting the results of an independent review commissioned by Canada Soccer into drone spying at the organization.

The results of that review are expected to be shared with the public this week.

"'Bev [Priestman] worked with John [Herdman] and he was a mentor to her," said one former member of the Canadian women's team. "Drones were an essential part of her preparation."

Herdman began coaching the women's team in 2011 and led them to back-to-back bronze medals in the 2012 and 2016 Olympic Games. During this time, Bev Priestman, originally from England, was one of his assistants. She became head coach of the national women's team in 2020 earning them a gold medal in the 2021 Tokyo Games. 

The former player said drones were "systemic" and Priestman was "obsessed with having information about her opponent." 

Herdman moved on to oversee Canada Soccer's men's programs in 2018, including the national team. 

Only a few months after Herdman became coach of the men's national team in November 2018, sources told Radio-Canada he had the national team spy on the small island nation of Saint Kitts and Nevis, whose national team has never qualified for the FIFA World Cup. 

"They were fishermen," one source said. "When we found out, we were laughing amongst ourselves. The people in the organization who knew about it found it absurd." 

Sources said other teams were also spied on, including Honduras, but their sports' federations did not respond to Enquête's questions.

According to Radio-Canada's sources, drones were also used to spy on opponents of Canadian youth national teams.

Radio-Canada attempted to reach John Herdman through his employer, but he did not respond to questions. Herdman currently coaches the Toronto FC team which plays in Major League Soccer. 

In a news conference at the end of July, Herdman denied using drones during major sporting events while he was coach.

"I'm highly confident that in my time as a head coach at an Olympic Games or World Cup, we've never been involved in any of those activities," he said.

WATCH l John Herdman denies use of drones:

Former Canada Soccer coach John Herdman 'highly confident' teams weren't involved in spying on his watch

Ahead of a Leagues Cup match, current Toronto FC manager and former Canada Soccer men's and women's teams coach John Herdman denied that his teams were involved in spying, saying he is "highly confident that, in my time as a head coach, at an Olympic Games or World Cup, we've never been involved in any of those activities."

A spokesperson for Bev Priestman also turned down a request to comment for this story. 

A drone pilot, responsible for spying on several occasions has also turned down Radio-Canada's request for comment, saying they're "not in a position" to speak.

Sources told Radio-Canada Canada Soccer has asked its employees and other people tied to the scandal not to comment on the subject. 

Staff under intense pressure

Sources told Radio-Canada they faced "strong pressure" from Canada Soccer's top coaches to take part in the spying. 

"'No' wasn't an option," said a former player on the men's national team. "John Herdman put his staff under a lot of pressure. If his assistants refused they were put aside." 

"You could be blacklisted which would change your entire career," said another former player. 

If they didn't spy, their career wouldn't progress, another trainer, who still works with Canada Soccer, told Radio-Canada. 

The use of drones became "institutionalized" within Canada Soccer, said a source who worked with John Herdman. "He would tell us that he used them all the time for his team, notably to film their own training sessions," the source said. "It was a daily tool for him, a great pedagogical tool and useful for progress."

People in leadership positions aware

"Someone should have stood up to say: 'That's enough.' It's difficult for the players and members of the staff, but someone higher up should've stood up," says a former player. 

According to multiple sources, Canada Soccer executives knew about drone use. 

Among the documents submitted by Canada Soccer to FIFA was an email between Priestman and an analyst dated March 20, 2024, regarding spying. 

WATCH l Emails show how an analyst pushed back against spying:

Emails suggest routine soccer spying as Canada’s women advance to quarterfinals

New redacted emails from suspended head coach Bev Priestman suggest drone spying may have been routine practice with one message stating ‘all top 10 teams do it.’ The revelations came as Canada’s women won a do-or-die match against Colombia to advance to the Olympic knockout stage.

"As discussed yesterday, in terms of the 'spying' conversation, I came off the meeting with clarity that you understood my reason for me being unwilling to do this moving forward," wrote the analyst whose identity is redacted by FIFA.

Priestman then forwarded the message to a Canada Soccer employee to receive advice on the analyst's rejection of the practice.

"It's something the analyst has always done," wrote Priestman adding that the practice "can be the difference between winning and losing and all top 10 teams do it."

Some sources tell Radio-Canada all players weren't necessarily aware of their team's spying, though some had suspicions.

"On the eve of certain games, we would show reports to the players saying: 'Here's what the opposing team does, here's what will happen,'" shared a former player.

"Players can be naive. We're not breaking our brains to figure out how we obtained the video."

"It's rare to tell your boss you're not OK with their values. You work, you do your job," he said.